Amplify Your Voice: The Healing Power of Speaking Your Truth with Deb Shapiro

Jan (00:03.378)
Hi, I'm Deb Hiro is joining us today. And before we start the actual podcast, I'm just wanting to tell you Deb that I'm so grateful that you're here. And could you please let us know that you're here of your own free will and choice state your name, that you're here of your own free will and choice, and that you hold us harmless as an outcome of this podcast.

Deb Shapiro (00:22.646)
I am Deb Shapiro and I am definitely here on my own free will and I hold you harmless of any claims that could be made.

Jan (00:32.074)
All right, thank you. Okay, we're gonna do what I do and do a little clap. That means we are starting this podcast. So today I am joined by a lovely woman that I had the opportunity to meet through a mutual friend, Deb Shapiro. For 15 years, she has been developing so many different talents in businesses that are now changing the world. Deb, welcome.

to our podcast show and to our community. We appreciate you being here.

Deb Shapiro (01:03.886)
Thank you, fans.

Deb Shapiro (01:08.482)
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate being asked. Thank you for it. I'm looking forward to today.

Jan (01:13.406)
Good. So in your line of work, you actually were a speaker or you were credentialing speakers in the industry, including some of the biggest hall of fame, inductees and certified speaking professionals that we would know of. How did you get into that type of work?

Deb Shapiro (01:38.394)
I think it's kind of like life in general. Life happens to you and then it's we get to dance with whatever comes to us in life. I was actually for the first 15 years of my career in human resources consulting and training and development. And I ended up moving to a little town called Sedona, Arizona. And it is one of those places that didn't have a lot of corporate America. So when I got...

settled there, I realized, oh, what am I going to do with the rest of my life living here? And at that time, my brother also left corporate America to go out and be an entrepreneur on his own and become a keynote and motivational speaker. And so I ended up partnering with him about three years into his journey. And I was his business manager and advisor.

And we had the blessing in 2015 to get him inducted into the Speaker Hall of Fame. So that actually was what started it all. And obviously, as you can imagine, it opened up a tremendous amount of doors for me to work with other people at that level. And so that's really how it started, but I didn't stay there because I really found that where my heart is, is working with regular people.

who have a message that they want to bring out into the world and share with others. And so that's where I am today. But my starting was with my brother actually that helped me break into this industry and helped me learn how much I love about this industry.

Jan (03:14.202)
And is your brother still a speaker? Is he still on the circuit out there? He is.

Deb Shapiro (03:16.534)
He is. Yeah, he is. He is. He's, you know, it's funny because a lot of Hall of Fame speakers, you might know a couple of the names out there, but they're not necessarily household names. A lot of the speakers that I've worked with work in big corporate America, traveling around, traveling around the world, actually speaking at large corporations. And so he speaks on innovation and creativity. That's his expertise. And so I got to learn a lot from him while I was working with him.

Jan (03:41.962)
Thanks for watching!

Deb Shapiro (03:46.118)
And I got to learn a lot about the speaking industry and working with the other speakers that I had an opportunity to work with as well.

Jan (03:52.298)
Oh, that's amazing. So I know in 2017, this is when your life, again, you're not in the same exact place, but you created what we now call DebX, very much a play on the TEDx and the TED Talk industry. It's a little bit more robust, however, because it's a 90-day speaker development experience, and then people get on the stage as...

Deb Shapiro (04:07.342)
Mm-hmm.

Jan (04:19.962)
as I got to do one time in Boulder, Colorado for a TEDx talk that I was able to give and ooh, talk about nerves. And I did it, you know, I had to develop the talk on my own and you only have like 10 or 12 minutes to say what you wanna say to the world. Tell me about how that became a reality, how that was the next step for you.

Deb Shapiro (04:41.194)
Yeah, it's funny because we have, we give you eight minutes in a Debex talk. Some people take some liberties there, but we say if you had eight minutes to change the world, what would you say? And Debex, um, now with you mentioned TEDx, TEDx is, uh, their moniker is to be able to share information. What we want to be able to do though, is to share transformation, to be able to share

the things that we've learned on our life lessons, our life journey that we have accumulated from typically our biggest challenges in life. And people were coming to me all the time, asking me about the speaking industry. How do I do this? How do I break into it? How do I write a talk? What do I need to focus on? All of those kinds of things. And so in 2017, I really followed my heart, I guess you could say, because I had been working with these big name speakers.

I loved working with them and I got a lot of learning throughout that process. But where my heart really was, was working with just regular people who wanted to get their messages out. And that's why I created Debex. It is an intensive 90-day program that you graduate by standing on the stage and delivering what you've produced over those 90 days. And our intention is to give people an opportunity to...

experience what it's like to be a keynote or motivational speaker because it really takes quite a lot of time, quite a lot of resources, a lot of money in order to be able to make it at the level where you can stand on those kinds of stages. And at our stages, we have 500 plus people that you're delivering your talk to.

on beautiful stages. I know you're not in the Arizona area, but we've spoken at the Tempe Center for the Arts, the Scottsdale Center for the Performing Arts, the Higley Performing Theater. So really these beautiful theaters that most even keynote speakers that have been in the business for years never have had that opportunity. And so it has been a beautiful journey. We got to do that for three years in 2017. If you do the math, that brings us to

Jan (06:41.822)
Hmm

Deb Shapiro (06:52.182)
March of 2020, which we all know what happened in March of 2020, we had the pandemic, which I'm gonna say was a good thing for us because it allowed us to realize that we could still deliver the content that we had created and deliver it via online methodologies. And I think a lot of people had figured that out during the pandemic. And that really helped us to be able to create the programs that we have today with our nonprofit. But...

Jan (06:57.756)
Yeah.

Jan (07:15.334)
Yeah.

Deb Shapiro (07:21.422)
That's pretty much how Debex got its origins, was really just all of my friends, all of the people that would come and talk to me would say, how do I get into the business? And I'm like, okay, let's create something so that you can test those proverbial waters and experience whether you want it, you like it, whether you're interested, because this way you don't have to do a huge investment other than 90 days to determine whether or not this is a future that you want to be able to create for yourself.

Jan (07:51.106)
Oh, I just love that because I love the idea that you're working with just everyday people with stories with their voices. They have something to say. And I am such a believer as are you that I have heard you say, you know, your voice is this powerful instrument. It's the instrument of change by using just your voice. And I know when I started the online community that we have

Deb Shapiro (07:52.72)
I'll just...

Deb Shapiro (08:01.238)
Yeah.

Jan (08:20.746)
through one of the services through the Jamborberg Foundation is the key. For me, it was thinking about this is the key to healing. Like standing up and sharing your story in a safe space where you will be believed. Because so often survivors of sexual assault or violence or abuse.

are often not believed, they're not heard, and often they're not seen because they were children or tweens or teens. So when you can find your voice and you can have a safe place to share your story or to at least hear the stories of others, to have some experts come on and talk to you, it's really been a powerful way to help people heal. And just to build peer-to-peer support and friendship.

So taking it that one extra step where you're on a stage and somebody says, I want to get into the industry, but what do I have to say? You have found some very powerful stories or a genre of stories that I know you have helped coach people to tell. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Like how did some of the 90 day people become the speakers that they are? And what did they have to say?

as their powerful instrument was exercised, their voice.

Deb Shapiro (09:48.874)
Yeah, well, I think there's two parts to that question actually. You had mentioned before about the power that it is to have your voice be heard. Now, to be honest, when I first started Debex, it was supposed to be a speaker training program so that people could get a sense of how to write a clear, concise, a compelling message, and then give them the platform to deliver it upon. But, you know, one of the things that we actually noticed across the board for every single person who graduated through the program,

was there was this transformative power for them. They had this courage, they had this freedom. They felt like a different person on the other side of the stage. Now this was never intended to be a healing modality. It's a speaker training program, but it was crazy to watch what happened for each of those voices. And so there's a, I don't, you know what? We haven't talked about it, but there was this...

progression during the pandemic. I was talking to a dear friend of mine. She was retiring and she wanted to give back in the next chapter of her life. And she knew she wanted to work with young girls and women, but she really didn't know how. She was in the airline industry and was like, well, how can I do this? What can I do to support other women? Now I happen to know her background.

She had been abducted and trafficked at the age of 13. And I said to her, I'm like, I know your background. Do you know mine? What if I were to help you write a talk? Now you never have to share it on a stage, but that you can have it in your back pocket in the event that you meet someone that your story could make a difference for.

And now my friend is, if you ever met her, you would agree, I'm sure she's a badass. She's an amazing woman, has accomplished quite a bit in her life. So her response actually really shocked me. She throws her hands up in the air and she's like, I can't talk about that. And my whole mission was that all voices are heard and are making a profound difference in our communities around the world. Yet here I am with my dearest friend.

Deb Shapiro (12:05.614)
who still couldn't speak about something that had happened to her over 50 years ago. And it really was that conversation that had me go, well, you know, we have created all this transformation over here with very regular people coming together to just learn how to have a voice. What if we were to take the tools that we created in Debex and be able to give those specifically.

to women who had been impacted by sex trafficking and sexual abuse. And it was that idea that was created just a little over three years ago that has taken us on a wild ride. And our first set of women, the story is rather serendipitous, but how all these women started to show up on my doorstep was amazing. And in March,

27th of 2021 was our graduation of our first 90 day program. Seven women from around the country who wanted to come together, learn how to share their stories. And they shared it in front of hundreds of people, both live and live streaming. And these women have been on an amazing journey ever since then. And we have been blessed to have been able to give.

more and more voices, as soon as we started to share these talks with other women, they could see themselves in those messages and they felt their own power and started coming to us saying, hey, I want to have my voice be heard. What would it take? Now, not everybody wants to stand on a stage and I wouldn't advise that for every person. However, just...

sharing your story amongst a group of individuals who have gone through something similar, who can understand what you've gone through, who can create a safe space for you with very simple tools so everybody can succeed in it. Now that is the recipe that we have found that has given such power and such voice to so many women out there.

Deb Shapiro (14:11.554)
who have been impacted by trafficking, sexual assault, sexual abuse, those kinds of traumas in their lives. And all they're doing is speaking, sharing their authentic truth and having it met with love. No resistance. They're not wrong, but just love. And that has really been our recipe of being able to create such power and beauty in so many women out there.

Jan (14:39.746)
Oh Deb, I've cried now, I've had chills, I've had all of it through that speech. I was like, oh my gosh, she's got me crying already. Just because I do, I believe in that. I know how telling my own story, difficult at times, but also how much it has allowed me to have it outside of my body, something that I can examine, something that I can look at and something that I can triumph and have power over.

And so my voice being heard, that has been a hugely important piece of my own healing, you know, from my own experiences. And so anyway, we are on the same page about, there is something serendipitous about a group of people coming together, which is how I feel about these initial people who have joined my ThriveIver's community. It's like serendipitous because they're the perfect people to be a part of.

the movement forward, the movement into other pieces of our nonprofit, our foundation that I'm interested in. And this is one of them. Like we talked about at lunch when we were able to meet each other in person for the first time, wouldn't it be amazing if somehow we could take this program that you've got, this 90 day program and help that voice of those millions and millions of people who have been...

assaulted and the children. Our mission statement is to end, you know, that we want to make the world a better place by ending sexual violence against children. And when I say children, I mean anybody 25 years of age and younger while your brain is still developing, you know, the emotional, physical, sexual and mental abuse is it's almost like a life sentence until, like your friend, after 50 years, you were able to say, I might have a way.

I might have a way for you to actually talk about this and for it to not run the show of your life anymore. You know, I mean, maybe you didn't say it quite like that, but that's sort of how it felt prior to finding my voice. Like it's running the show. What happened to me before is running my now. I don't want it to run my now, but I didn't know how to make it stop.

Deb Shapiro (16:57.386)
Yes, yes. What you're saying is so apropos. It's like something that happens all those years ago.

is still so present in our lives today. So how do we take that and put it back in the past where it belongs? Learn from those experiences, right? Because we don't wanna lose the learnings that we got because we did learn something from each of these experiences, but gain the freedom, be able to remove those emotional ties that are there that are keeping us from really being free to live a life right now, today, in the present.

And you said something else that I want to comment on, which is the coming together. The thing that we ended up hearing so much almost across the board from everyone we've worked with is how alone they felt. They felt like they were the only ones in the world who were going through what they were going through. But then as soon as, even if they didn't share their own story, which all of them did end up eventually sharing their own story.

Some were slower than others to do it. And everybody, we have a principle, go only as far as you're called to go. And that's one thing I would say to everybody is trust your intuition, trust your gut. Listen to that and go only as far as you're called to go. But when each person started to share, other women would hear their message and see themselves in that message. And that's what really created so much of those aha moments for people.

We had a woman who had never shared her story in 20 years with anyone other than her husband. 20 years, she had gone through carrying this around, holding it in silence, believing that she was alone and the only person going through it until it was about three weeks into her 90 day program. And she heard one of the other women sharing her story about being groomed and being trafficked.

Deb Shapiro (18:56.478)
And when she heard that story for the first time, she never even recognized herself as someone who had been trafficked. It was just her life. She didn't even have a word or a distinction for it. So when she heard this, she was so inspired by that, that coupled with her message, which was her discovery or her rediscovery that she was good. I am good was her message. And once she saw that.

coupled with the other woman's message, she actually got in her car, drove across the country back to Florida where she had been trafficked, and she knocked on the doors of everyone she went through the juvenile system with, those that said she would make it, those that said she wouldn't make it, and she walked up to them and said, "'I made it and I am good.'"

And just four months ago, she actually signed up with an organization to help women who are reintegrating from being in the world of sex trafficking. She has gone from never telling anyone to actually making it her life's mission to make a difference for others. And that's the freedom, that's the power. She was ashamed and felt guilty alone, all that stuff. So what do we do? We sweep it under the rug because we think that it's gonna be met with all this resistance.

Jan (20:05.906)
alone.

Deb Shapiro (20:14.294)
But as soon as she was able to speak her truth, there was this incredible freedom. It's out. It's out now. I don't have to hide.

Jan (20:20.698)
Yeah. I'm not hiding. Yeah. There is such a freedom. That's such a beautiful story. Because I think often just going back to how she didn't even quantify that what had happened to her was I was groomed and I was trafficked. Because we think of trafficking that is happening, you know, in some other, you know, third world country from, you know, people that are traveling, you know,

from this country there, which happens, which is horrible to children and tweens and teens. But there's also a tremendous amount of trafficking that is happening right here in the US of A. And we do not understand the ramifications of what a child who is basically brought up in that, that I have several, you know, on my community who have spoken about this and in other podcasts.

about the fact that I was born into this. It was my earliest memories, but never quantifying it as being trafficked. So interesting to me, is there a way to define that for people that are experiencing it, that don't know that's what they're experiencing it as? I mean, have you come up with a, how do you help people define? What's happening to you is not okay, especially if they're young people and this is all they know, because we're trying to...

get a message out, you know, we're doing 365 days of grooming and manipulation. That's what we're starting. So every day somewhere on our social media pages or in our, in our, my solo podcast or something, we're talking about grooming and manipulation because you don't know you're being groomed or manipulated. They're masterful.

Deb Shapiro (22:06.726)
Yeah, it's yes, very much so. That's and I'm not an expert on sex trafficking in any way, shape or form. However, what happened over that and I learned exactly that I always thought it was happening in other countries and it was a kid who was abducted and, you know, in some dark basement and, you know, that is happening. And as you were saying, it happens right here and it happens within families. It happens amongst communities.

It happens right here. It happens online all the time as well. People are groomed online. I didn't even know that that's really what sex trafficking was. And so, you know, I don't have all of the solutions specifically for sex trafficking and how to have people be able to speak up to get out of it. But here's what I would say is if you know others,

who have stepped out of it or what you're doing to help others recognize themselves in these circumstances. Once they can see that and they can see that other people have succeeded, that they have been able to get out successfully and are living this powerful life, there's that crack in the door, the little bit of light that comes in that allows them to be able to step through it. And so the more that we can get these stories out there, the more that we can get these

Jan (23:06.347)
Mm-hmm.

Deb Shapiro (23:30.634)
messages out there that you are not alone. That's the first one. You are not alone. You are not the only one. This was not your fault. This was absolutely not your fault. These individuals are well skilled at being able to groom people, to bring them in. They've been doing it for many, many decades, centuries, actually.

Jan (23:53.97)
Yeah.

Deb Shapiro (23:54.638)
and they haven't mastered at this point in time. So do not at any point in time think it is your fault and recognize that people do step out and they can succeed and thrive that what that life, yes, you're always gonna have some knowledge of it and learnings from it, but you can step out of it and not necessarily be debilitated by it for the rest of your life. That is an opportunity. And if others can see,

these kinds of stories of hope and triumph. We called our show Triumph Over Trafficking. It's not about the pain. It is about the triumph that people actually have experienced. And we believe that, you know, that's an opportunity by sharing these messages, what you're doing, what the women who have been so brave to share their voices and let others know what's going on.

Jan (24:29.746)
Hmm.

Deb Shapiro (24:48.974)
I believe that that's really what the opportunity is for others to see that and know that they can too.

Jan (24:56.418)
Oh, it's like listening to my twin talk my language over and over again. It's so wonderful because it just encourages me when I, you know, when I recognize the many, many people who have been hurt and harmed by in these various, you know, abusive ways. I just want there to be, you know, an opening, a solution. And I believe this is really it, which is

What you just said is exactly what I have kind of built my own nonprofit around. And you went on from DebX to actually create in 2020, in the middle of COVID, a nonprofit. And I'd love for you to tell us a little bit more about Amplify Voices, which you call it an advocacy incubator. And just tell us how that all came into focus.

and what you've been doing inside of Amplify Voices as well, which again, it's about voices, finding your voice and finding your freedom.

Deb Shapiro (26:01.246)
Yeah, well, as I mentioned, really the seed that was planted was in that conversation with my friend. We had already been doing Debex for three years. We were having all the success and people who were experiencing this transformation for themselves, not just themselves, but for the audience as well. And during the pandemic, I had that conversation with a friend of mine. And I'll tell you this, it's kind of, I was never a...

serendipitous believer before, but I am most definitely now after this experience because I sometimes believe that, well, sometimes life just has a plan for you and it's going to make it happen regardless. And so this was one of those circumstances. I was after I had my conversation with my friend who had been trafficked, I knew.

what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to take the Debex concept and bring it forth to give voices to women impacted by sex trafficking, but I honestly had no idea how to do that because it wasn't like I knew a whole bunch of people out there. And normally we just post on social media, hey, applications are open for Debex. Let us know if you want to share your stories in front of hundreds of people. And I didn't think that was really the appropriate way to go about finding women. I didn't think we would actually be able to do that.

do that. So I was talking to my fiance actually that evening and I asked him, I'm like, do you know anybody who is in that world who can help us make some inroads here so I can connect with some women that might actually be interested in sharing their stories? And we did think of one woman who we had worked with a couple years ago, but it had been a long time since we had worked with her.

hadn't seen her, honestly couldn't even remember her name, to be honest. So we just were like, okay, well, we'll figure out another way. But it didn't matter because the very next morning, literally the very next morning, I got an email from her.

Jan (28:02.916)
Oh my gosh.

Deb Shapiro (28:03.922)
And in the email it said, and I quote, I'm ready to have my voice be heard. Yeah. So here out of nowhere, out of the ethers comes this first woman and then that same afternoon, same afternoon, I get a phone call from a woman who I knew from 10 years prior. She was ready to apply for a Debex. She had gotten up the guts to put in her application, but obviously we were not doing one during the pandemic. So.

Jan (28:13.074)
I got a little tooth bumps.

Deb Shapiro (28:32.562)
I talked to her, I was asking her, what are you doing with your life these days? And she mentioned this nonprofit she had been working with. I'm like, oh, I'm not familiar. What do they do? And she said, they work with young girls and women who have been prostituted. Like, may I ask why this is of importance to you? And she said, well, I was an Epstein girl. Before there were Epstein girls, I was prostituted as a young girl. So now, within 24 hours, two women.

Jan (28:56.865)
Ugh.

Deb Shapiro (29:02.242)
literally show up on my doorstep, ready to have their voices be heard. And within just weeks, we had a total of seven women who were ready to share their stories and go through the process to learn how to be able to share it in a powerful way that lifts others up and can make a difference, not just for them in sharing their stories, but others who can hear those stories. And so

That happened, I think I mentioned March of 2021 was the first show that we delivered. And then we started to do what we call watch parties. These are when we show the talks at theaters or oftentimes just small social gatherings of people that might be interested in listening to the talks. And the floodgates opened when women could see the courage of these other women. They wanted that.

They wanted that and so they started saying, I wanna have a voice. And so now as you can imagine doing a stage show has a tremendous amount of resources associated with it. It's a lot of people, a lot of money, a lot of time. And not everybody has 90 days to be able to commit to that. And not everybody wants to stand on a stage. So what we ended up doing was we created a truncated version of the 90 day program. It's a 30 day, what we call speaker circles.

And we created these speaker circles so that anyone could step in. They would be given a buddy. They would step into the speaker circle. And over 30 days, they'd have a chance to learn those same exact tools that people would learn in Debex through the 90-day program. And they would get to share it amongst their own women in their own group, which was incredibly powerful for them. But the first group that went through it, that wasn't enough for them. They're like,

We want to share more. We're so inspired. So this group of women, we had seven women who graduated from our first program. They now who never shared their stories with anyone else, we offered up the opportunity to do what we call a dare to share, which is only women, because we wanted to make it a safer environment since most of the perpetrators were men. And we said, okay, so you can invite whomever you'd like.

Deb Shapiro (31:22.478)
And if you dare to share, then please go forward and do this. And in two weeks, we had over 100 people register that these women invited themselves. We didn't do any inviting for them. They did all of the inviting. And that's what we ended up creating. And so we've had several speaker circles ever since then to continue to perpetuate the voices of the women who want to step forward. They never have to do Dare to Share if they're not, because they get to go only as far as they are called to go.

Jan (31:37.311)
Wow.

Deb Shapiro (31:53.006)
And, you know, the broader picture of Amplify is that while this is going on, we got tapped on the shoulder by the Diocese of San Diego, and they wanted to be able to, they saw what we were doing and they said, would you be open to giving voices to those who are formally incarcerated? And so in 2022, in partnership with the Diocese and with the University of San Diego,

Jan (32:13.039)
Hmm

Deb Shapiro (32:19.67)
we ended up starting to give voices to those who had been formerly incarcerated so they could use this in their curriculum to be able to work through with restorative justice. And then in 2023, we were approached by the chief of breast surgery over at NYU Medical and a stage four metastatic breast cancer survivor.

to give voices to women touched by breast cancer. And so while all these other programs are going on, we've launched a new voice each year, 2023. We just completed our show in June of women touched by breast cancer. And we just announced, actually, the next voice we are launching in 2024 is mental wellness, the voice of mental wellness, which is definitely one in our society that is

swept under the rug. So we want to be able to give voices to those who have historically been silenced, misunderstood, oppressed, so that they can use that voice as an instrument of change to make a difference for those causes in communities around the world that they wanna impact. As you mentioned, we are an advocacy incubator. We're not the experts in sex trafficking. We're not the experts in breast cancer or mental wellness.

but we can work with the people who have the passion to make a difference for those causes and give them those simple tools so that they can have the power, the confidence, the knowledge of how to speak about it powerfully to make a difference for others. And so that's a little bit about what we've been doing over the course of the three years that we've been around.

Jan (34:02.59)
Oh, I love that. I definitely know 2025. I've got to have a meeting with you. For your, you know, because honestly, another one that is swept under the rug so much is anything to do with childhood sexual abuse. It is only now that a few people are starting to, you know, raise their voices and talk about it, you know, in kind of a celebrity space,

Deb Shapiro (34:08.586)
Hahaha!

Jan (34:32.464)
and things that have raised a little bit of that voice and yet it is still one of the things people want to shove under the rug, pretend it doesn't exist, or it certainly can't exist in my family or my community or my congregation or my business or you know it can't be like it's happening there. So I'm just not going to look at that and I know we have to.

raise our voices in a way that allows people to see that yes, not only is it real and does it exist and that grooming manipulation and all of the things that keep us silent are still happening today. It's not like it's way back in the 70s when what happened to Jan Broberg. It's like today it's still happening in alarming numbers and to be able to show what you're doing.

overcome this, how you can have a life that is giving back, that is happy, that you have joy, that you experience things. And not that every day is, you know, perfect for any person, but that you really can change the world with your voice. And this is one that my community, they're so interested in. They're like, why aren't there laws that actually support the victims? Why don't we ever get

our predators, you know, behind bars or why is it that we can't seem to get the world to notice? I've seen every kind of sort of foundational television commercial about bullying, about, you know, about not enough food, about backpacks, about so many things that are so important, but not anything about sexual...

assault, abuse, or violence against children. And yet there are signs we could do better as a society, we could educate better, and we could raise the banner of hope also in a way that people are not stuck and suffering in silence. So this is why the voices matter so much. Anyway, we'll have to have a conversation. But honestly, I just think what you're doing with

Deb Shapiro (36:36.406)
For sure, for sure.

Jan (36:43.766)
each of these very important subjects that you've now brought. And like you said, we're not the experts on them, but we can help people know how to share. And just even if they only share in your circle, because you're talking about these circle groups that come together and they may not ever get on the stage, but they are sharing there in a safe space. That's such an important thing for those who have gone through these various traumas. These are all traumatic experiences that you've mentioned that people are now...

trying to come through, raise their voices, be heard, be healed, be seen, and be able to go forward freely to live the lives that they are, like you said, called to. To go to the point that they are called to in their own personal lives. I really, really love that and I just am so thrilled about what you're doing. It just to me is amazing. And so with these...

Deb Shapiro (37:21.243)
Yeah.

Jan (37:42.798)
with all of these circles, what you come out with, maybe you already described it, but you come out with a film or a viewing party. I know you also have a documentary, don't you, called The Journey? Okay, tell me a little bit about that as well.

Deb Shapiro (37:53.634)
We do. Yes.

Deb Shapiro (37:59.67)
Well, again, serendipity prevails, it seems like, these days around Amplify. But it was about, well, the program's 90 days. We were about halfway through the program. And I remember going to sleep that night, and I was thinking to myself, this was the same problem I had in Debex. We need to be able to figure out a way to document the journey.

Jan (38:24.638)
Mm-hmm.

Deb Shapiro (38:24.73)
of these individuals who are going through to have their voices on the stage. Because what the audience ends up seeing is this professional, polished speaker, but they have no idea what these individuals went through in order to be able to have their voices be heard. They really have turned themselves inside out and upside down and have gone through all sorts of crazy spaces. We call one of them the dip, right, as you can imagine.

Jan (38:48.682)
Mm-hmm.

Deb Shapiro (38:49.354)
where you're like, I'm not sure that I want to do this. You're comparing yourself to everybody else in the program. You want to be able to extract yourself out, but they continue to be able to move forward because they know how important it is to have their voices be heard. But I wanted to figure out a way, how do we show what's behind the scenes, not just what's on the stage, but what does it take to have your voice be heard? That next morning,

Jan (39:11.786)
Mm-hmm.

Deb Shapiro (39:18.374)
I get a call. It is from our title sponsor. Her name is Anna Pinkes with the Aculanda Women's Foundation. And she also happened to be a principal in a documentary firm in Madrid, Spain. And she said, you know, I've been, she's been coming to some of the trainings that we had been doing. And she's like, what's being done is so powerful. We need to bring that forward for people. What would you think if we were to create

a documentary about the journey that these women are on to have their voices be heard. And of course, I'm thinking to myself, okay, what a wonderful idea. And so it was such a beautiful blessing. She brought in her own people to be able to film. Now everything we had done up until this point was done via online medium, on Zoom, on Marco Polo's, which is a texting video texting app. So we had all of that.

Jan (39:54.716)
Yeah.

Deb Shapiro (40:14.794)
But she, within two days, she brought her people out to do the filming and they did it. It was about a year of editing. And on the other end of that is this absolutely beautiful piece called The Journey that chronicles three out of the seven women's stories about what it was like for them on their journey and what it was like to have their voices be heard. We've actually had a couple screenings this year.

One in January, one that we just had actually last week, all of which have sold out. We're very fortunate and excited about that. And we'd like to do, and we are doing actually another screening on January 22nd in honor of Human Trafficking Awareness Month. And so that is forthcoming. It's just really a beautiful story of these women and what it took for them to share their voices. Now, you know, why people sweep?

This topic, I believe under the rug, is because it's not consumable for the audience at large. People do not, it's like, here, take my money, here's my donation, but please don't make me have to listen to it, please don't make me have to talk about it. It's something that we are designed to survive as human beings, and so just hearing about this is something that people want to put aside. But what we are so blessed about with this documentary is it was-

created in such a consumable way, it's uplifting. It'll turn you upside down. It'll make you angry. It'll make you sad. It'll make you frustrated. But ultimately, it is about the triumph, the success, what it is on the other side of having that power. And it's consumable for an audience to be able to listen to it in a way that they can understand it. And I think that that's really important is

Jan (41:46.407)
Thank you.

Deb Shapiro (42:09.114)
Nobody needs to hear the graphic details. Now in our own group, sometimes we need to get through all of that in order to find our message and find our lesson. And that's all OK within our own little circle. But when it comes out to speaking to the audiences, we need to listen or we need to speak in such a way that they can consume it. Otherwise, they're going to just shut it down and we're not going to be heard. And our job is to have our voices be heard.

So we want to say it in a way that's consumable for people to be able to hear it, that it's relevant in their own lives. It moves them to be able to take action. And I believe that, um, that Dockland Films and Anna Pinkett did an exceptional job at being able to call out those important pieces to make it consumable for the average listener.

Jan (43:01.426)
Hmm. I think that's really a piece of great advice and wisdom that, you know, I can certainly take away from our conversation today and think about, you know, what is on the other side of that. Going through that healing process going through the process of raising your voice of whether it's in your safe peer to peer group that understands because it's happened to them in some, you know, nuanced way but it's, you know, all within under that same umbrella.

and then being able to forward-face the message out to the public in general in a way that allows them to know that there is hope and if they're going to donate and they're going to give to this, they're going to see that the world can be a better place. People can have improved lives by going through these kind of processes. And I just really appreciate that because it is sometimes I can get a little overwhelmed.

by the other side and you know get a little bit discouraged but after talking to you and you're such a positive and hopeful you know from the moment I met you you're just like full of energy and life and freedom and all the things that I'm like I want to be like her when I grow up you just are and so this is this is really important that we can hear the voices and that the voices

are speaking from a place of, I have found my power. I have found a way through this darkness you can too. And you know, and that we inspire people because yeah, otherwise it's too hard. It's too harsh for people. Like, yes, I'll take your money. I'll give money, but I don't wanna hear. You know, I can't hear the gory details and I get that. I get that, it's very true.

So as we kind of wrap up our podcast, I feel like there's still so many things that I want to ask about like with the women who, how did you decide the three, those stories, and are they all the same story? Are they all trafficking? Are they different stories from your various, you know,

Deb Shapiro (45:17.602)
Yeah, actually that's a great question. So they're all from our very first show from Triumph Over Trafficking. So they are all women who have been trafficked or dealt with sexual abuse or assault. Now, how are those three picked? Okay, that was, now I didn't create the documentary, it was created by Dockland Films and Anapinkus and that woman loved all of our women.

Jan (45:24.327)
Oh.

Deb Shapiro (45:44.554)
And when she first came out with the documentary, she was featuring all of the women. And it was, again, it wasn't consumable. It was overwhelming. It was too much information for the kind of documentary in the short span of time. So how she picked it, I don't know how she ended up with the three. I think they were each a little bit different stories to help, because although our stories are similar, it's kind of like a diamond. There's multiple facets of the same story

different individuals can bring out that will touch different people. So I think she wanted to be able to create that opportunity for people to hear little bits and different pieces of that. But it was keeping her up at night. This woman wanted to feature all of them. She wanted them all to feel heard. She wanted them all to feel special. But ultimately, in order to make it consumable for the audience, she needed to whittle it down to three. And she was absolutely...

It was absolutely important to her that we did a screening before any of this movie was released so that we could get the sign off and the approval from every single woman who was in that show. And it was across the board. They all felt proud to have this movie represent them. And so I think she did everything she could humanly do in order to make sure that everybody was represented.

represented it. Everybody was represented and had their voices heard in the way that they felt confident about. And so, you know, it's, I wouldn't have wanted to have her job. I can tell you that right now. It's like hard enough for me when we have events where we can't take everybody. So I oftentimes will create programs to go, okay, we've got all these extra people. Let's create a whole another program just so we can have these people's voices be heard because I believe everybody.

has something of value to be able to contribute to the world. Again, that facet, the multiple facets, and we need to hear all of those different pieces as long as we're doing it to make a difference for others and lifting people up.

Jan (47:47.37)
Hmm.

Jan (47:55.034)
Yeah, and I, amen, and I believe that so strongly as well, because without the first part of what you said, realizing that we're not alone, and that's what can happen when somebody will share and they're ready to share and they go as far as they are called, for me, I always knew I should, I don't should on myself anymore. Not that I should tell my story, but that I wanted to tell my story

felt like there were two things that were missing from the conversation. One is that abuse is almost always at the hands of someone that you know. It's not generally a scary stranger. So it isn't the majority of all of the suffering in all of these arenas that we're talking about is almost always instigated from somebody that you already know.

that you may trust, that you may love. And so that's the really confusing part for children and tweens and teens. It could be an online predator, as we know that's also a common place. But even in that they build trust and they get to know you and then they meet you in person and now they're a friend and then something more grievous of course happens. So the idea that...

that we're not alone and that it's someone that we know is one of the points that rarely has been really talked about, at least back when I was going, I should, I want to share my story. And the other part is that

when we talk about grooming, it can happen to the entire family like it did with mine. Like a manipulator is going to manipulate everyone around the intended victim or target in order to gain control. So they do that by gaining trust and all of those things that happen when you are groomed or manipulated by a master manipulator so that everybody is not looking in the right place. Everyone has a special relationship. So those are the things that have been on my mind and

Jan (50:02.092)
And the way that you have now been able to incorporate stories, whether in just a circle of friends who now trust each other and they have a safe place or on the stage so that you know hundreds of people, thousands of people, tens of thousands of people can hear them is just so inspiring to me. And I just once again, I hope that our listeners have.

gained something about talking about their own story and it may not be a story that is you know riddled with abuse. It might be a story of like you said someone who's been incarcerated maybe in their family and what's the life after? I just think all of these sensitive subjects

are important and to know how to talk to the people that you love and how to support them is what the education piece is also about if we're going to make a difference for people who have survived various traumas, whether it's addictions, it's incarceration, it's abuse, domestic violence, this month is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and I have thought often about how often my

My stories of child abuse have led to relationships inside of domestic violence and of women who have been trafficked out of that situation. There's many and people don't often put those pieces together, but they all are connected. So Deb, any closing remarks, something we didn't talk about that you wanted to say that we didn't get out there? Anything left unsaid? Sure.

Deb Shapiro (51:51.41)
I have a question. Can I ask you a question? So what was it that gave you the power originally to share your voice? Would you share a little bit about how you came to having your voice? Because you're now very publicly sharing about what your circumstances were. But what was it that gave you the power to be able to share your voice?

Jan (51:54.523)
Yeah.

Jan (52:19.738)
You know, that's a really good question that has a lot of different answers at different points in my life. But my first answer would be I actually regained my own sense of self and confidence and who I was as a person in a program called the Landmark Forum that I attended. And I was 30 years old. And when I went through that program and I had lost my... I mean, I...

I looked like a confident person. I was still in the plays and the musicals and all through, thank goodness I had my art that saved me really in so many truly amazing ways. Not only could I cry and scream and be happy on stage, and all the emotions that you go through even in a young character.

you know, at 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years old and through high school, you know, after I knew that some of the story was not real and trying to come out of it and being able to have my art, that was huge for me. But a lot of the actual confidence, like I know who I am, I know that I'm worthy of being happy, of having joy, of finding love, of being love, you know, all the things that were always there as a young.

girl who was free and the world was my oyster until it wasn't and that didn't happen for me until 12 but I had a wonderful childhood and I had all the confidence in the world. When I attended that particular and I'd done other workshops that were really good for me, I had a communication with my parents through my college years about why didn't you know this and how come you didn't do that and we had really, they listened, I was really lucky that...

you know, my parents were the people that they were, that they listened and they just constantly were there to say, oh, we're so sorry, we didn't know and we are so sorry and we wanna help, you know, we love you and we always did and I knew that. So I had that as a foundation, but my confidence came back at the end of those three days, there's a place where you finally kind of look at your life and your past.

Jan (54:39.022)
And it's like you erase the blackboard, so to speak. You'd kind of erase everything and you go, oh, I get to be in charge of what happens next. I am an adult. I am the person that decides what comes next. And so that empowerment brought back my deep gut confidence.

Do I have it every minute of every day in every way possible? Probably not, but I do have a sense of myself and that I get to be in charge of what happens next in my life and that I create what happens next. And that was hugely powerful for me. So really that was the opening when I really knew. I not only want to tell my story, but I can. I can tell it and it won't hurt me.

Deb Shapiro (55:29.199)
Mm.

Jan (55:32.506)
it will only help me and it could help millions of other people. And that's sort of when the genesis of, I want to do what I'm now doing 31 years later. You know, but I have been doing that, sharing my story, but now, you know, it's culminated in the foundation and our...

Deb Shapiro (55:49.75)
I love that. You know, you talk about that blank slate and, you know, really all of us have that opportunity to have that blank slate and we've heard it a million times. That's why we on New Year's always create the what's going to be my goal and all of this other stuff and we can't seem to maintain it oftentimes. But we really do. We have an opportunity at any given moment to say that's my past. It's not happening to me right now in this moment.

I can choose, I can make a difference for what the direction I want to have in my life right now. And by recognizing that your past is your past, and it doesn't have to dictate your future or even your present that like right now what can I make as a decision for myself right now that's not dependent upon my past and have that freedom. It's not an easy thing to do. But once you can see.

Once you can really get that it is a blank slate that you get to create and paint anew every single day, that's really where some incredible power can come from. And so thank you for sharing that. You just reminded me of, okay, I've got to remember myself. I get that blank slate that I get to create on every single day.

Jan (56:59.545)
Mm-hmm.

Jan (57:09.25)
Yeah. Oh Deb, thank you so much for being on our podcast and for the friendship and the light and the shining a light on people's stories. You're just a remarkable woman and I really appreciate you being here today. Thank you so very much.

Deb Shapiro (57:27.438)
Thank you, Jan. I really appreciate the conversation. This was wonderful. So thank you for the invite.

Jan (57:34.398)
Absolutely everybody go and check out those things that we've talked about. Amplify Voices, that's a beautiful nonprofit. And DebX, there are many, many ways that you can access to hear these beautiful talks and then The Journey coming out in January. Thanks again, Deb.

Deb Shapiro (57:52.177)
in.